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[Drama 2018] Are You Human Too?, 너도 인간이니

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@bebebisous33 I’m conflicted about mum.  While I can understand the negative feelings  here & online about her actions or rather reactions, part of me is rather sympathetic as well.

 

 I wish that being the creator of NS3 that she’d react the way David does for example - who sees him as an entity that is capable of having/developing  feelings & emotions , and learning to make judgements and decisions outside of what he has been coded to do . So I felt the way SoBong felt as well , that mum has totally forgotten him because Shin is around , she’s somewhat “used” him. That made me sad , since NS3 is extremely likeable & I felt very sorry to see him experience neglect. 

 

But then again being the creator of NS3 knowing that he’s made of metal , wires & programs, I can see why she’s not prioritising his feelings here. Plus it is the responsibility of a scientist ( my opinion only) to have back up plans just in case the AI you create goes rogue. The self drive car is a prime example of the need for the kill switch . Also with Shin being in coma , I can imagine her emotions being all over the place . My sympathies for her lie here because she’s really been robbed of twenty years of her life & her son. 

 

I hope you’ll understand that I’m not saying I agree with her choices / decisions especially in pursuing this new position. That’s why it’s important for Shin to wake up soon . Too many people are making decisions on his behalf in the name of protecting him , thereby removing his agency. 

 

-/—

Grandpa is an extremely interesting character. Sometimes I don’t know to believe him or not. I can see why Seo betrayed him at the end . He felt he was used - his emotions & his loyalty . Of course his own greed has a big part to play as well. This brings me to JYH ( I can see why LJH took up this role ) . While I trust NS3 ‘s judgement of who he is , there’s a feeling that he is capable of turning either way - staying loyal or betraying Shin. Not because he’s a bad person but because his life is completely tied to this family & company, and he may feel trapped & unappreciated. I’m looking forward again to seeing the relationship that Shin & him had to understand if this loyalty is as deep as it seems . 

Edited by triplem
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@triplem Don't misunderstand me. I don't hate her and I am glad that you reminded us again that she was a victim since she lost her husband and her son at the same time.

 

The thing is that since she created NS3, all this time she had a son who was innocent and very dependent of her. Sure, she changed its appearance because NS was growing up but NS3's personality never changed. He was kept in an infantile state. If she had been with her real son, she would have been forced to change and adapt herself because NS became an adolescent and later an adult. So the reason for her behaviour is that she has not been prepared mentally for this evolution. Moreover, she has idealized her relationship with her son NS. However, after waking up, I am quite sure that NS will express his disagreement with his mother. Finally, I believe that she feels guilty towards NS (that's why she didn't reply to YN's reproach that she had abandoned her son) as she never tried to take him back again hence she is neglecting NS3 . 

 

To me, there are a lot of factors explaining why she has become so ruthless and cold-hearted:

  1. She is a scientist and as such, she perceives NS3 as a robot who could help her to overcome the loss of her child. NS3 was created for her own need hence she perceives it only as an object.
  2. Her guilty conscience: how can she prove to her son that she has never forgotten him and that Ns3 was just a replacement? She needs to get rid of him. That way, she shows that even NS3 could never fill his absence.
  3. Her flaw: she has always preferred someone who was obedient (or filial)... Notice that the family came back to SK because she wanted to give a lecture. As soon as she was finished, they wanted to leave the country again underlining that she had a huge influence on her husband. That's why NGH didn't like her so much as he had the impression that JW's life was influenced by ORR.
  4. She has always dealt with a machine that was acting like a child. She has never learnt to adapt herself... like every human being, at some point the child will become a man and have his own life.

From my point of view, she can only change, when she has a conversation with NS. I guess, NS will have to confront her and point out her mistakes and flaws. As an adult, he will be able to recognize his mother's weaknesses. Moreover, it would be great if David and JYH help NS to see NS3 in a different light.

 

@nateko@jerboa83@USAFarmgirl @juju84 @vangsweetie637

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44 minutes ago, triplem said:

@bebebisous33 I’m conflicted about mum.  While I can understand the negative feelings  here & online about her actions or rather reactions, part of me is rather sympathetic as well.

 

 I wish that being the creator of NS3 that she’d react the way David does for example - who sees him as an entity that is capable of having/developing  feelings & emotions , and learning to make judgements and decisions outside of what he has been coded to do . So I felt the way SoBong felt as well , that mum has totally forgotten him because Shin is around , she’s somewhat “used” him. That made me sad , since NS3 is extremely likeable & I felt very sorry to see him experience neglect. 

 

But then again being the creator of NS3 knowing that he’s made of metal , wires & programs, I can see why she’s not prioritising his feelings here. Plus it is the responsibility of a scientist ( my opinion only) to have back up plans just in case the AI you create goes rogue. The self drive car is a prime example of the need for the kill switch . Also with Shin being in coma , I can imagine her emotions being all over the place . My sympathies for her lie here because she’s really been robbed of twenty years of her life & her son. 

 

I hope you’ll understand that I’m not saying I agree with her choices / decisions especially in pursuing this new position. That’s why it’s important for Shin to wake up soon . Too many people are making decisions on his behalf in the name of protecting him , thereby removing his agency. 

 

 

I feel the same, and that's why I've mentioned the Technological Singularity here in this forum. That's a concept every scientist working in the robotics and/or IT field is well aware of (including fictional Oh Ro Ra).

Having personally assembled and programmed her robotic "son", she assumed to be able to analyze and predict his behavior, and when that doesn't happen, she's shocked and she fears the possible consequences. Even Namshin III himself isn't totally aware anymore of how his neural network and deep learning processes are working...

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5 hours ago, jerboa83 said:

 

I agree on everything except your last statement about the marriage: in order to annule it they should confess the fraud and the existence of a robot that it literally indistinguishable from a human...

As I've said the fraud won't be the issue since they were going to eliminate NS3 in the end. For all they could say they hired the double to impersonate NS and show the medical papers to prove the real Shin was incompetent at the time. There are a lot of other ways to prove the marriage is invalid especially with their resources and connections.

And besides at that point YN would have too much to lose (including NS's good disposition) to keep on clinging onto this *marriage*.  She wouldn't dare openly oppose NS incriminating his mother especially when the fact of SJG's involvement in NS's accident would be proven.

 

@theseasasleep

Quote

That's a big IF, lol.

Lol, can't argue with that:lol:

 

@bebebisous33, love your comments, chingu! Its always very deep and detailed.:thumbsup:

I agree that, in a way,  ORR is a control freak but the reason she became like that is somewhat understandable to me. She never had much control over her life and the circumstances. She probably tried hard to be accepted as daughter-in-law but failed. She tried to protect her family but failed. She maybe a genius scientist but even this didn't help her to snatch her son from NGH's grasp.

In fact she had a little to no control at all. Thus NS3 is her way to compensate for it. In a way and even taking into consideration her scientific set of mind, she loves NS3 but blood is thicker than water. Ofc now seeing her son in this predicament her sense of guilt magnified and she is ready to do anything to atone for NS's lost childhood even if it means sacrificing her creation.

It would not be right to say she perceives NS3 solely from scientific point of view but in this circumstances her flesh & blood comes first. I doubt that using  kill switch would be easy on her but if it comes to this she would do it trying to justify her actions by the fact NS3 is  * just a robot*.

I totally agree with you that only human Shin can influence her at this point. Thus I truly wish he would learn to accept and understand his twin brother. Maybe with some help from SB, secretary Ji and even NS3 himself. Uri tin can surely knows how to warm his way into someone's heart:)

 

As for the ORR's expressed wish to have an ideal obedient son. Well, who can blame her, really? This is every mothers' wish  from time to time. ;)

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@triplem @bebebisous33 I agree with both of you about mom. While I am conflicted most of the time about her character, lately my opinion has been shifting more towards the negative side. Right now I think that she is becoming more and more like grandpa. No wonder he doesn't even mind her working at the company.  I don't think it's solely based on the fact that he thinks her appearance affects Shin in a good way but also because he saw that she's not much different. As a person (not taking into account her mom status) she seems like a difficult person to deal with. Mom seems to be a person that thinks everything should go either how she wants or nowhere at all. She's sweet and nice when everything is how she wants but the moment something goes against her wishes she'll bite. I can understand that as a mother she'll do anything for her child but as a person, I don't like her and as a scientist, I don't like her as well. The scene when Yena went to mom to complain about Robo Shin was telling. I was so bothered by what she said to Robo Shin, that she made him to be perfect and he was perfect so far, so why is he acting up. That statement showed her ego as a scientist. First of all, nothing made by humans can be perfect; things made by an imperfect being cannot be perfect. As a programmer, I can somewhat understand the WTF moment when a program doesn't behave the way I've programmed it, but here it was more than that on her part. I've worked in IT security and hacked things here and there to check for vulnerabilities, and the first thing you learn is that no program is perfect. If t it appears to be perfect that just means we haven't found it's flaw yet. So mom, as a person working in robotics, is all over the place with her feelings. She's irrational and at this point, I'd say dangerous because she can cause a lot of harm with her erratic feelings. 

 

@bebebisous33 I also think that the way mom treats Robo Shin has a lot to do with her guilt towards NS. She'll have a lot of problems ahead of her when human Shin wakes up. The fact that she wasn't there when her son grew up and went through puberty will be a big obstacle because she hasn't experienced the difficulties of parenting. She hasn't seen her kid acting out, rebelling, upsetting her and doing things she doesn't want him to do. So when human Shin wakes up she'll experience a rude awakening. He also has a strong personality just like her, so they will eventually clash. How she'll react to that will determine her trajectory as a character. Hopefully, David will act as a voice of reason.

 

By the way, I guess we're up for some major changes for SB as a character since she'll get a new haircut.  :D At least that's what I learned from years of watching Kdramas. Here I think it actually suits her character. SB's current hair is kinda messy and all over the place just like her behaviour. The new hair looks neat and... um, calm? I guess she'll finally decide what she'll do and commit to it fully. She seems more determined with this new hair. 

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@bebebisous33 @natekoYes mum has never raised a human Son all the way so to speak .What I hope mum will realise is that Shin is not who she imagines he is. Right now I’m certain that she likely thinks that Shin is as obedient and docile  as NS3. I can imagine when Shin wakes up , he could likely disagree with her working for the old man . 

@jerboa83@juju84 I hope we don’t have to come to a point where NS3 actually has to marry YeNa for real. ( though it seems so from the stills released earlier ) Even if it can be proven a fraud later on, I actually hope for Shin to wake up in time and tell YeNa off.The latter is an opportunist , no diff from her father , who is trying to secure the marriage even when she knows the real Shin was neither nice to her  Nor wished to marry her 

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@triplem, yes, let's hope! 'Cause even the mere thought of YN succeeding in her agenda  makes me cringe. I hope she will never get her way.  And all of her underhanded plans would blow into her face instead leaving her the one looking pathetic in the end. She needs this reality check. This girl has none of my sympathy nor deserves any at the moment.

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11 hours ago, Lj said:

It’s been a long time since I posted here, I marathon yesterday episode 1-8 and in KBS world in my cable it’s showing ep 13-16  anyway I love what is happening in the character development in our lead stars. I love how they have written kang So Bong being a gutsy independent lady who has no fear if she will get caught, and I’m surprised to till now Director Seo still haven’t find out that she is change her base :P and I love how she teaches our adorable handsome robot into a human nature, and Namshin3 giving his innocent pure character to SB so I guess they are really meant to be, definitely NS3 is having now a complex and he is having his open will like human do. And I have when his mother design a switch kill on him, my gosh even me I will never ever kill intentionally my electronics or car. I’m not insane that even they are objects I will let them be just like that even if they get old.

one of the characters that I love is the dad, he is just innocent as NS3 because he doesn’t have any idea about the situation.

like any fantasy drama I hope this one will have a happy ending.

I wouldn't say she is fearless lol considering she was about to resign after she realized that Seo has somehow catched up that she is playing double agent, though I don't blame her , I would do the same until and unless I m head over heals in love with NS3. 

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3 hours ago, triplem said:

 

@jerboa83@juju84 I hope we don’t have to come to a point where NS3 actually has to marry YeNa for real. ( though it seems so from the stills released earlier ) Even if it can be proven a fraud later on, I actually hope for Shin to wake up in time and tell YeNa off.The latter is an opportunist , no diff from her father , who is trying to secure the marriage even when she knows the real Shin was neither nice to her  Nor wished to marry her 

 

Namshin III himself might be the one to refuse, when So Bong comes back to him... He'll (sort of...) play along only until he's alone facing it all. At least, that's what I hope... :)

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Wow, @triplem, @jerboa83, @juju84, @bebebisous33, all of your thoughts on the mom are pretty wonderful and are a great exploration of her character's current arc!  Hard to disagree with good arguments.  Guilt coupled with her mindset as a scientist are feeding into her current behavior regarding NS3.  It is thoroughly terrible still but like the grandfather, we can still discern what is motivating her.  It's funny, she would have been more aware of the depth/importance of NS3's changes if she hadn't been avoiding him out of guilt and to establish emotional separation.  Which brings me to agree with @nateko about how shades of the grandfather's previous actions are now being echoed by the mom. Really, even if the grandfather thought his son was weak, he likely still would have hated anyone who came between him and his control over his children. I might imagine that the son might have been a bit like the aunt, fighting for recognition but he fell in love and suddenly the father's recognition, the wealth and the power no longer mattered.  Mom now finds herself facing a son who no longer behaves as she's used to, a son who has prioritized someone else.  NS3 probably had a better/kinder upbringing than the son/aunt/NS combined and she had absolute control, but now that the control has slipped... Human beings rarely react well to a loss of control, even if that loss is minimal but especially if that loss is total.

 

It's funny to me to be concerned about the danger presented by a "rogue" NS3.  We have human beings who have suppressed the details around another human being's death - this show has me so twisted I even suspect the son isn't dead but had been brained and locked up in a sanitarium somewhere; human beings who have attempted to kill for wealth and power; humans who happily trample on the will of others while loudly proclaiming love and devotion; human beings who take money to spy on and ruin others, human desperation, etc., etc.  Right now, I have far more faith in the robot getting it together than the humans who think to some extent their behavior is normal, acceptable, pragmatic, etc. Not really a reply to anything, just something I was thinking about.

 

YN cannot succeed, my god, I'd riot!  It's so awful. Marriage to her, whether NS can break it afterwards or not, would be a solid representation of everything he's tried to escape for 20 years now and its success would represent his continued utter failure to do so. It would be enough to drive even the kindest person mad, so imagine NS, lol.  Right now, I'd like him to have some hermit time in a nice tropical island somewhere because his luck with people is not so good, :P

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@theseasasleep @triplem @juju84@nateko @jerboa83 I really enjoyed reading all of your posts about the mother. Each of you underlined a different aspect hence we can now better understand why ORR has become like that and why she is about to make a terrible mistake. I also think that since JW, NS's father, was considered as weak by the father NGH, he must have resembled a lot to NS's aunt. Since JW loved his wife, GH saw it as a thread because he had no longer any control over his son's life. Maybe that's another reason why the grandfather has chosen YN for NS. He knows that he doesn't love YN therefore he will never be influenced by her. 

 

In my opinion, it would be interesting if NS3 and NS switched their place without the knowledge of the mother and the others so that NS would be able to judge them. It would be great if NS3 and NS worked together. Imagine, YN thinks that she is standing next to NS3 at the altar, when her fiance announces the cancel of the wedding. Enraged, she wants to reveal that Ns3 is just a robot but discovers that she has been played. The human NS is back and he threatens that if she unveils the secret about NS3, then he will reveal that her father tried to kill him.

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16 minutes ago, bebebisous33 said:

@theseasasleep @triplem @juju84@nateko @jerboa83 I really enjoyed reading all of your posts about the mother. Each of you underlined a different aspect hence we can now better understand why ORR has become like that and why she is about to make a terrible mistake. I also think that since JW, NS's father, was considered as weak by the father NGH, he must have resembled a lot to NS's aunt. Since JW loved his wife, GH saw it as a thread because he had no longer any control over his son's life. Maybe that's another reason why the grandfather has chosen YN for NS. He knows that he doesn't love YN therefore he will never be influenced by her. 

 

In my opinion, it would be interesting if NS3 and NS switched their place without the knowledge of the mother and the others so that NS would be able to judge them. It would be great if NS3 and NS worked together. Imagine, YN thinks that she is standing next to NS3 at the altar, when her fiance announces the cancel of the wedding. Enraged, she wants to reveal that Ns3 is just a robot but discovers that she has been played. The human NS is back and he threatens that if she unveils the secret about NS3, then he will reveal that her father tried to kill him.

This I love!  Just like when her father got played at the board meeting, i can see her pulling the bullied victim card in the aftermath as if she was the one taken advantage of!  LOL. I'd enjoy this almost as much as I'd enjoy NS3 not showing up at the wedding. :D

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21 minutes ago, bebebisous33 said:

@theseasasleep @triplem @juju84@nateko @jerboa83 I really enjoyed reading all of your posts about the mother. Each of you underlined a different aspect hence we can now better understand why ORR has become like that and why she is about to make a terrible mistake. I also think that since JW, NS's father, was considered as weak by the father NGH, he must have resembled a lot to NS's aunt. Since JW loved his wife, GH saw it as a thread because he had no longer any control over his son's life. Maybe that's another reason why the grandfather has chosen YN for NS. He knows that he doesn't love YN therefore he will never be influenced by her. 

 

In my opinion, it would be interesting if NS3 and NS switched their place without the knowledge of the mother and the others so that NS would be able to judge them. It would be great if NS3 and NS worked together. Imagine, YN thinks that she is standing next to NS3 at the altar, when her fiance announces the cancel of the wedding. Enraged, she wants to reveal that Ns3 is just a robot but discovers that she has been played. The human NS is back and he threatens that if she unveils the secret about NS3, then he will reveal that her father tried to kill him.

Ohhh, I hope we have the occasion to see both "brothers" working together and exchanging places. It would also give us the opportunity to see if So Bong is able to tell them apart, which I'm sure she would be able to do, haha!! However, I don't see it happening at the beginning at least, I bet NS will be angry. But later, who knows, he has a room full of robot toys, so maybe he develops sympathy for NSIII. ^_^ I don't know what I would do if I met my robot twin, but most likely I'd be mad at the humans involved than being angry with the poor android. Unless the android goes rogue and threatens to steal my life, which I don't think it will be the case here at all.

 

And regarding Oh Ro Ra, there are plenty of thoughtful comments about her and I agree with the majority of them. Mom has been driven by her pain all this time. I believe as a scientist, it doesn't matter if you have seen the cables and chips and stuff and put everything together, you would be able to develop attachment and even love your creation. The problem here is that she built NSIII as a proxy from the beginning, she was always looking at her lost son and never realized the new entity she had in front of her. Her experience with Nam Shin III is opposite to our viewer experience, we see Nam Shin III first, and we get to know him, we don't have feelings for Nam Shin so for us it is difficult to understand Oh Ro Ra. But for her NSIII was little more than a picture of her son. She just put her knowledge into making it as real as possible but her heart was only with her son. And yeah, I think she made a big mistake because she lost sight of the responsibility she had with creating something like Nam Shin III. Now she feels guilty and wants to end up things the easy way, just eliminating NSIII. That's terrible, but I'm not going to think of her as a villain yet, haha!! I have the feeling that she might reconsider later and realize that she's wrong. She's not evil, she just has a twisted perspective on the matter due to her situation. But someone needs to make her see that NSIII is a self-aware individual that deserves respect and maybe a little compassion from his creator. I hope it will be So Bong. Secretary Ji and David might help as well.

 

Anyway, finally tomorrow is Monday again and we get a new episode! happy-dance-cheetah-emoticon.gif?1302786

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Some news on naver, but not sure whats that about. I think the pictures are a new stills. NS3 sitting on bench with SB.

And wow NS3 in tuxedo? :wub:

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2018071001000775500059871_20180709090317

 

It's the scene guys!!!

 

The article just mentions that in today's ep, Nam Shin III's days without So Bong begins, and people around him will be surprised by his different behavior. and for viewers keep watching whether he'll be able to follow SB's instructions to act on his own will + see the important turning point in his robot life.

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There is a scene were SB is in the hospital at 1:44. I think something happens to her maybe involving with the guy with the tattoo and Nam Sin is there to save her. I feel like something will interrupt the wedding or engagement plans. I really can't wait until the human Nam Sin wakes up and shakes everyone up, especially YN.

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6 hours ago, bebebisous33 said:

In my opinion, it would be interesting if NS3 and NS switched their place without the knowledge of the mother and the others so that NS would be able to judge them.

That sounds so good! And I think it'll happen. I think someone else in the thread quoted the actor saying that he acted NS pretending to be NS3 the same way NS3 is pretending to be NS. I really just need him to wake up already and shake up the dynamics of the drama, because something has to change before NS3 gets caught. Not just the marriage from hell being stopped, but the mom needs a wake up call. And I want to see everyone interact with him in real time, how will he react to how they treat NS3. What secret information will he learn about what they expect of him? How will NS3 react to the human NS finally interacting with him for real? Will they be friends (I hope so)?

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humanitytoo1.jpg

 

I don't know if anyone talked about this poster but do who do you think SB is hugging here? Robot Nam Sin or the human one? It is snowing and his hairstyle is different. There is a possibility that the real Nam Sin could wake up and team up with robot Nam Sin. I would really like to see the real Nam Sin as well. 

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These pics!!!! Monday is going to be exciting and full of things guys! From the bottom second pick I guess that is how Nam Sin is going to stop the ceremony. Lets not forget the second pick of him holding her hand like that! He can't control himself around her:heart::love::wub:

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You guys all explained the mother so well. To be honest, I’m really fuming at her now because I feel like she really did use NSIII even if he is a robot and it’s selfish of her nw to ‘throw him way’ now that her son is back in the picture. Even before the kill switch, she would barely if ever see NSIII if it wasn’t for something to save her real son. Then again, seeing how great of a ‘person’ NSIII is, she can’t be all bad because so far the best part of her is the Android she created. I hope we see this decent of end character make an ascent soonerrather than later. She is definetly becoming the grandpa, or maybe now their roles have reversed and we will see the grandpa become more likable as she becomes more despicable.

 

real NS. I am curious about what he was really like because I haven’t seen much of a glimpse of him so far. I got a bad impression of him after he fooled SB and even slapped her. What was his point of all that? Part of me thinks maybe he knew her...like he was a fan of her when she was a fighter? I don’t know. How interesting it would be though if he does like SB and not YN.

 

that said, I realllly ship robot NS with SB. Their chemistry is off the charts. Will they end up together in the end??

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