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[Current Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] The Story of Ming Lan 庶女明兰传 / 知否?知否?应是绿肥红瘦

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3 minutes ago, Suzzy San said:

You all are forgetting what happened when QH directly wanted to propose and how much ml suffered through that, so she definitely doesn't trust anyone again and she definitely doesn't need someone that just comes to promise her his love, 

You all are forgetting that GTY has been seen as a bad person in the society, even if ML vouches for his character in front of grandma, if he now tries to act all sweet, grandma will not trustvhim the more, as such he could inky show grandma his smartness and make her know he can take care of ML

You guys are forgetting the Era they are, If he just goes on to tell them about Rulan, no kine will even look at him not to talk of giving him minglan. They will just see him as a shameless rumor carrier officer. 

Most importantly, you all are forgetting that ML has feelings and this feelings has been hurt by doing things the pure way. As such, GTY does not want to be another man that promises but couldn't fulfill it.. He does not want to be a burden. So he will better be called a bad person or a schemer than put her in a hard position. Because if ML agrees to marrying him directly it will be purely because he saved her mother and he has helped her before.. That's all, but through this schemes, she understood him more and they have a mutual feelings now than before. 

 

It's was not a gentleman way on the part of GTY but was GTY ever a gentleman... Or is ML a gentle woman... No.. They are two people that have survived only through schemes and intense plan for the future because they believe that life is full of blacks and whites. 

Nicely said.. Agree with you

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6 minutes ago, linhlinh111 said:

She accepted him but it doesn't mean that her doubt is gone. She accepted him for 2 reasons: 1. She liked him, 2. She understood that he was a suitable match for her. ML and Grandma was okay with it cuz they're both rational people, they knew the situation was set so they try to be the most okay that they could. However she doesn't fully trusts him and that issue lies with them for a long time. I understand that it was an era that you have to be manipulative to succeed, but you can not be all manipulative, especially when it comes to the one you love. For example before when ML included her brother CB in one of her schemes, she cried and drown in guilt although she had no other choice and Grandma supported her. What I don't agree about him is that he thinks of his schemes as a very casual thing and he doesn't show any sense of guilt at all. It's okay to be scheming under certain situations, but when you think scheming is the norm then it's not okay anymore. If he had told ML beforehand (or just hinted that he was actually planning to marry her) then I would have no problems with him at all.

 

And it is not just my opinion, bc the problem of him not being sincere and truthful enough exists in the book.

You are right that his thoughts that schemes are casual thing is a bad thought and that's why GTY was never portrayed as a pure man in the drama.. He is a rogue from beginning till the end. But we also shouldn't only see that his plans are somehow problematic, no one can be as pure as Chan Bai or QH, we should also see that he is someone who maintains his zeals about life and someone who tries to take responsibility for his thoughts and plans. 

ML and GTY are both the same in terms of scheme and not talking about their true feelings, and that will make them have their first fight which will make their relationship stronger. 

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1 hour ago, gleek49 said:

 

1. If he expose Rulan's scandal first, and then ask for a daughter, then there's no guarantee the family will accept his proposal at all. Cause if he knows about RL before proposing, people would be very confused as to why he insisting on marry a Sheng girl, even after knowing they only have a lowly shu one left. It just makes him look suspicious. He has to push them into the situation where there's no coming back. He has to make them agree to his proposal first, make it known to the whole city that the emperor approves of their match. By pushing them into the corner, even grandma is unable to think of any way out. Sheng family literaly has no other way than to marry Rulan to the scholar and Minglan to him. He has to make it look like both him and the Shengs are on a sinking ship together, that both sides have to compromise; not him holding their neck with the Rulan's affair. Ruthless, I know, but higher chance of success.

 

2. As I said before, there's no guarantee that Minglan herself would choose him over the obvious easier choice that is Dr. He. What if she still doesn't want to marry him after he confesses to her? As you said, she's very smart, if she knows his intention, she'll be very careful not to be trap by him, she'll even counterattack his plan. Isn't that just shooting himself in the foot?

That was I was trying to say. There is no guarantee ML would chose him. If she doesn't want to marry him then it is wrong to force her. Whichever era it is, this is still true. He has no rights to decide what's best for her. His plan was not about her, it was about him getting her. He didn't put her first, he was putting himself first. Had he ever counted in her feelings and her choice (and also her Grandma's)? No, he wanted her, so he just had to have her.

 

I'm not against underhand tactics. I understand that scheming is necessary at some point, but it doesn't mean that it is right. ML is a scheming, manipulative woman, but she understands this, while GTY doesn't. ML actually feels guilty and sad when she has to use people to achieve her goals. I just wanna show anyone who support his method that, if he was okay with being manipulative against ML, then both he and their marriage have issues.

 

I never said GTY was a gentleman, and I also understand his tragedies and experiences in the past which lead to his result-focused methods. I sympathize with him and I'm also excited to see him on his way of improving himself, seeing ML and GTY bonding after marriage and resolve their issues. I just don't know why many don't realize that his method and his current way of thinking have problems?

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2 minutes ago, linhlinh111 said:

That was I was trying to say. There is no guarantee ML would chose him. If she doesn't want to marry him then it is wrong to force her. Whichever era it is, this is still true. His plan was not about her, it was about him getting her. He didn't put her first, he was putting himself first. Had he ever counted in her feelings and her choice (and also her Grandma's)? No, he wanted her, so he just had to have her.

Well, ml agreed and happily married him after hearing the explanation from him.. So, there is no issue anymore about her feeling or choice

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46 minutes ago, linhlinh111 said:

That was I was trying to say. There is no guarantee ML would chose him. If she doesn't want to marry him then it is wrong to force her. Whichever era it is, this is still true. His plan was not about her, it was about him getting her. He didn't put her first, he was putting himself first. Had he ever counted in her feelings and her choice (and also her Grandma's)? No, he wanted her, so he just had to have her.

 

This plan IS about him getting her. But it doesn't mean that he didn't put her first. He put her first when he offer to help QH, he made it clear that he liked her at this point, but because he knew she liked QH, so he was willing to give her up. He put her first time and time again when he tried to protect her reputation, never asked anything back from her even though he's the one who saved her all the time. He even waits until he's accomplished and successful and worthy enough to ask for her hand. Almost everything he does is for her best interest, so what if he did this one thing for himself?  

 

Also, I trust his character, (1) if he can't get her to agree to marry him before the wedding, he will not force her. And (2) as we all know very well, he's one of the rare people in the world who truly get her, I think he's aware of that and thus, he sees himself as the best choice for her. So this scheme of "having to get her", can be seen as his own way of offering her the most suitable husband, hence, putting her first. ( The way I worded this may make it sounds like he's too full of himself, but I think we all know that's he not that kind of person.)

Edited by gleek49
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23 minutes ago, linhlinh111 said:

She accepted him but it doesn't mean that her doubt is gone. She accepted him for 2 reasons: 1. She liked him, 2. She understood that he was a suitable match for her. ML and Grandma was okay with it cuz they're both rational people, they knew the situation was set so they try to be the most okay that they could. However she doesn't fully trusts him and that issue lies with them for a long time. I understand that it was an era that you have to be manipulative to succeed, but you can not be all manipulative, especially when it comes to the one you love. For example before when ML included her brother CB in one of her schemes, she cried and drown in guilt although she had no other choice and Grandma supported her. What I don't agree about him is that he thinks of his schemes as a very casual thing and he doesn't show any sense of guilt at all. It's okay to be scheming under certain situations, but when you think scheming is the norm then it's not okay anymore. If he had told ML beforehand (or just hinted that he was actually planning to marry her) then I would have no problems with him at all.

 

And it is not just my opinion, bc the problem of him not being sincere and truthful enough exists in the book.

Her doubt is probably not gone. We have a fight between them coming up sometime so this will probably compound that as well...we’ll see

14 minutes ago, leeza77 said:

So sweet.. 

  Hide contents

http://p.weibo.com/show/channerWbH5/1034:4329954553599758

 

Ml so tired and sleepy whilst gty so energetic.. Ha ha

 

She was yawning & nodding off throughout the whole getting ready part....

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17 minutes ago, linhlinh111 said:

That was I was trying to say. There is no guarantee ML would chose him. If she doesn't want to marry him then it is wrong to force her. Whichever era it is, this is still true. His plan was not about her, it was about him getting her. He didn't put her first, he was putting himself first. Had he ever counted in her feelings and her choice (and also her Grandma's)? No, he wanted her, so he just had to have her.

I am not seeing the issue here. He talked to her, explained to her & proposed to her & only then she agreed. She also told her grandma that she felt happy that he went to such lengths for her & then she realized he put Sheng family name at stake & she wanted to slap him. She had no issues, grandma had no issues after....

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1 minute ago, nichiwoohee said:

 

:ph34r:

why am I embarrassed watching this? It’s PG rated 

 

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I wonder if the drama will mention the reason why ML is tired :phew:

 

Spoiler

Ha ha.. In the novel she imagined that when gty's age reach 40th and she was 30th, then the table will be turned. So, it's him that will be tired while she still energetic.. Lol

 

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19 minutes ago, nichiwoohee said:

 

:ph34r:

why am I embarrassed watching this? It’s PG rated 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

I wonder if the drama will mention the reason why ML is tired :phew:

 

 

Spoiler

They did a lesson:grin:and I saw a clip where minglan still eating on their wednight:grin:

 

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ML might have not wanted to marry him but after his proposal, she was so happy to accept him.. It's not as if, when someone wants to dye you they will tell you first, they would have done a lot to reach you and you might be angry, but when they officially propose to you, you just see yourself melting.. The possibility of ml not accepting if he did it directly isn't because she does not feel anything but it's because she dare not feel anything.. So he did the proposal part officially before she agrees. And she even told grandma that she is happy and she is even afraid of being this happy.. So Even though there might have been some scheme, GTY came clean. And ML loved his moves more after that. So I just pray they don't drag their argument part too much.. It should be short and fulfilling. 

Like I have said, GTY is not a good or bad person and he is definitely not a gentleman. If he loves,he loves, if he hates, he hates.. Just like the emperor in story of Yanxi.. The way they get things done is dangerous and that's why they only love someone that can tolerate their inhuman side

And truly his ways of doing things is not the best and it's definitely not the good way either and we know it will lead to some trouble in the future too.. We are not actually supporting him, because I know when a problem arises now, we all will scorn him for being so manipulative hahahhah.. We are all just amused that this man can truly plan ahead of anyone and it's refreshing to see. 

 

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It seems like wicked step-mother in law is already making moves against ML in the newest trailer.  I hope she learns quickly that ML is no pushover.

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22 minutes ago, leeza77 said:
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Ha ha.. In the novel she imagined that when gty's age reach 40th and she was 30th, then the table will be turned. So, it's him that will be tired while she still energetic.. Lol

 

Spoiler

Jokes on her.. he’s a military man, maybe in the 60th he’d get tired:joy:

 

9 minutes ago, heatherbee said:

 

  Hide contents

They did a lesson:grin:and I saw a clip where minglan still eating on their wednight:grin:

 

 

Spoiler

This better be the same lesson I hoped for.. :angry:

 

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We are all shaped in our different perceptions in life. We are shaped in our culture, backgrounds, sex, etc. We all have prejudice, and bias. This drama perception is in the point of view of a woman. Thus most men (not all) are not pictured in a favorable view. This is ML’s  point of view of her world. Absolute patriarchy power corrupts and we see problems. 

Thus QH is perceived as a disappointing love failure. 

Her father disappointing and then some. 

The emperors and royal families are a bunch of incompetent fools.

GLY wins her, but does he really?  Its the best arranged marriage of the time, but she didn’t have 100% of a “choice”. Doesn’t mean I don’t believe in the concept of a modern arranged marriage tho. Forced modern arranged marriages on the other hand....

 

We also see an unfavorable view of women, but I believe we, as viewers, see the reasons behind their struggles more so than the male counterparts. And we are more sympathetic to them. 

 

The point I’m trying to make is for the peps here who feel that they shouldn't write about a specific topic don’t give up! Even though I might not agree with everything peps write on this forum,doesn’t mean I don’t think about it. It’s important to write your perceptions and discussion is key to uncovering the different layers of this drama. :wub:

 

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, leeza77 said:

There is conversation between ml and grandma in ep 36, if i'm not mistaken. The point in choosing husband is that you have to be able to tolerate the lowest character of that person. In he dr, he is too soft, thus it's not good for ml as she had to face the clinging and emotional cousin. Qh lowest character is his filliality towards his mother. In a long run if he might not be able defend her against his mother. Gty lowest character is he is a manipulator and a schemer, but all were done in order to catch her. So, the best of the 3 is gty. Even the grandma admired gty deep mind. 

 

Good comparisons between ML's 3 main suitors.. I think I would like to add on about GTY, he is a true manipulator and schemer not just bcoz of wanting to marry ML. IMHO, GTY are able to be promoted inside the army because of his smartness and calculating mind.. Perhaps, all those years of being unfavored in Gu's family makes him a scheming man.. Well, I don't blame him though. If we put our-self in GTY's shoes, we might schemes our way to SURVIVE with that kind of stepmom and step brothers.. They even dare to use GTY's deceased mother dowry to live a lavish lifestyle.. That kind of people are shameless, and of course we have to be calculative and scheming to get them to return our belonging to us willingly..

 

Just like ML, she acted like she is a little lamb YET she is actually capable to exact revenge for her mother's untimely death. ML's mind is also calculative and full with scheming ideas but the purpose is MOSTLY for her survival instead of for harming others like the way Concubine Lin n Molan schemes..

 

Therefore, I think it is okay and in human nature to scheme for SURVIVAL compared to scheming because of our personal GREED. The characters in the drama n novel portrayed the true nature of human after all..

 

1 hour ago, darkphoenix123 said:

They talk about it

By doing this she became dutiful daughter. Everyone knew that the emperor sanctioned GTY’s marriage with Sheng family’s Di daughter but as far as everyone knows Rulan was already promised elsewhere. So Minglan turned out to be the dutiful daughter by marrying GTY

 

I think this is also part of GTY schemes, to ensure that ML got under Da Niang family list then turn from shu into Di daughter. He purposely tricks CB into thinking he want to marry RL as he want to clean ML's reputation as well.. After QH approach and Liang family incidents, the rumors among the nobles mentioned that ML is aiming for higher branches regardless of her birth status.

 

GTY is smart indeed and I personally think GTY and ML suits each other as they are both SMART & SAVVY COUPLE..

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26 minutes ago, deslynn88 said:

It seems like wicked step-mother in law is already making moves against ML in the newest trailer.  I hope she learns quickly that ML is no pushover.

@deslynn88  Trust and believe she'll learn she's not a pushover her and sicly son is no match for her.. If wicked step mom don't won;t revenge bvest served cold I'll advice her and sickly son to mind there own business.. Granny didn't raise no fool

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22 minutes ago, Suzzy San said:

ML might have not wanted to marry him but after his proposal, she was so happy to accept him.. It's not as if, when someone wants to dye you they will tell you first, they would have done a lot to reach you and you might be angry, but when they officially propose to you, you just see yourself melting.. The possibility of ml not accepting if he did it directly isn't because she does not feel anything but it's because she dare not feel anything.. So he did the proposal part officially before she agrees. And she even told grandma that she is happy and she is even afraid of being this happy.. So Even though there might have been some scheme, GTY came clean. And ML loved his moves more after that. So I just pray they don't drag their argument part too much.. It should be short and fulfilling. 

Like I have said, GTY is not a good or bad person and he is definitely not a gentleman. If he loves,he loves, if he hates, he hates.. Just like the emperor in story of Yanxi.. The way they get things done is dangerous and that's why they only love someone that can tolerate their inhuman side

And truly his ways of doing things is not the best and it's definitely not the good way either and we know it will lead to some trouble in the future too.. We are not actually supporting him, because I know when a problem arises now, we all will scorn him for being so manipulative hahahhah.. We are all just amused that this man can truly plan ahead of anyone and it's refreshing to see. 

 

Yeah I didn't dislike his dark side either, I'm also not against his plan, I just don't agree when people defend including ML in his scheme. I actually find cunning people very interesting and intriguing, but I really hate being manipulated and lied to, no matter what the reason is, so I guess that's why I was hard on him.

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:lol: Did we finally get to see Huolan’s husband? Cause I think that’s all the in-laws at the door (blocking GTY, wedding tradition), 6th Liang, scholar, and was thinking the one in the middle is the illusive older Sheng son-in-law. We only saw his older brother in the beginning. I double checked to make sure it wasn’t CF. :D 

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20 hours ago, watchumlots said:

If there is a mess in the Sheng house, Master Sheng bears the most blame. 

 

The blame for the mess was on all the elders in that Sheng house.

 

Old Madam - remember Kang Momo berating Old Madam for not being stricter with SH and enforcing rules and hierachy. She retreated into her courtyard and just ignored the chaos.

 

DaNiang - played into Lin's hands by being the overbearing and shrewish wife to Lin's pitiful, bullied concubine. She was also not filial to Old Madam because she was not SH's real mother. A lot of issues could have been resolved early on if she had cultivated a better relationship and let Old Madam fight some battles for her. There is a great chapter in the book where her DaNiang's Momo advises her on what she did wrong mainly that her anger and temper makes SH more protective of Lin. 

 

SH - well yeah, he's largely to blame.

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