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[Current Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] The Story of Ming Lan 庶女明兰传 / 知否?知否?应是绿肥红瘦

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9 hours ago, UnniSarah said:

I understand @Golden Flower QH wasn’t weak but as the only heir for his parents he had do whatever it takes to pro this family. During his era he had no other choices. After all he grew up loved and was given everything he ever needed unlike GTY.  GTY was never loved and was wronged his entire life , so he chose to rebel to find some kind of happiness. 

Well said.  GTY had nothing to lose and in a way free to do what he wants (to a certain limit) whereas as I mentioned in earlier posts, QH unfortunately live in golden cage.  Every move he made will have an impact on his noble family.  I feel sad and bad for him.

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41 minutes ago, m0us3y said:

I know right! :lol:

ML must be some sort of bandit magnet or something?! :wacko:

4 bandit attacks in 3 episodes!! (Including her 1v1 with the fatty, which was more hilarious, and  the attack that she never had) Show is surely out to create opportunities for GTY to save her! 

 

I do prefer that he protects her in secret tho, and not declaring to her and expect returns. 

Especially funny that he shot the lantern and it seemed like she did it, frightening the bandit to run. :lol:

 

I think at some point ML will save him back. She can protect him, and the others around her too!! 

Yeah that was just so funny.  She thought that she had managed to shoot the bandit in the leg but in fact it was GTY in the background who did it.  Including the lantern.  I kind of like her cousins too and her two loyal maids. 

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59 minutes ago, frenchfan said:

Yeah that was just so funny.  She thought that she had managed to shoot the bandit in the leg but in fact it was GTY in the background who did it.  Including the lantern.  I kind of like her cousins too and her two loyal maids. 

Ha ha.. The servant said to gty after the 2nd time gty saved ml, "sixth miss is really fated with us". 

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First off, I am sorry for not quoting the post I am replying to -I forgot. XD

For the person who said about what SL ending might be, for me it's better he died honourably as a SL. It is much better than him having to watch someone he love in someone else arms tbh. 

As for the how this could be like those cliche k-drama I know right. Though I say I would would rather watch that than watching a not pure guy winning a pure girl. 

I honestly feel depress, probably if I just read the novel, I will just complain how I hate the character of ml and not even talk about the SL as I only see him as the ML's bro. But his acting is so good that it just makes you feel depress seeing those longing eyes that you know will never be fix. *I fell for the trap, and so I can only blame myself*

As of today, I will only watch the end. Not found of stories that will just make my heart hurt and whail in pain. Though I will keep on following this thread to get updated as to what is happening. 

 

I also like how @goldenfingers pointed out the difference between QH in the drama and the novel and point out as to why this is how he act. 

 

Edited by thatpers0n
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To previous post who said QH shouldn't help ML in the polo match, QH was in love with ML, ML was in a tough situation. So should he be like: "No worries, somebody else is gonna help her, I should just stay out of it"? That is not something a man in love would think. QH's action is logical and true to his character, maybe not very smart in viewer's opinion, but that's what he was supposed to do.

 

I see many have said that QH should have understood ML's situation instead of being selfish and causing her trouble. Imagine a 15 yr old boy growing up in a pink world, one day he fell in love and suddenly everyone said "No you 2 can't be together" and expected him to just give up? He loved her so he had to go for her. What's wrong with that? After he knew that his action would bring her trouble he tried to be more discreet, but there were moments he couldn't control himself and that was totally normal. He was young, naive, passionate and sometimes a bit less thoughtful, but that was who he is.

 

Viewers sometimes expect him to do things or to not do things that are completely out of his character. QH is not GTY, their backgrounds, situations and personalities are totally different. He is gentle, kind and his way of thinking is straightfoward. He wanted to marry ML so he did it the official way, asking his parents to propose for him. It might not a very smart move but that was how far his mind could go. If he wanted to get married he had to have his parents' approval so he couldn't think of any other way. He wouldn't con or trick his way through bc that was wrong to him.

 

QH refused GTY's help bc the solution he proposed was devious and QH, who lived by his moral code, could not approve. He didn't mess up everything, the situation was already messed up itself. He was cornered and had no other choice but to give ML up. At least he knew when to give up and he only gave up after trying everything he could. If he had 7-8 more yrs of life experience, when he was at GTY's age now he would be perfect for ML, but unfortunately for him ML wouldn't hang around and wait for him forever, so in the end QH and ML just weren't meant for each other.

 

The character QH in the drama was designed very well, from his optimism, to his naivety, to his passion, to his stubbornness. Resulted from his upbringing, his status and his personality, all of his actions till now were reasonable and consistent within the context of the story. After all he's just the second male lead so of course he gotta step back when the lead come on stage.

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Did anyone noticed that the actor who plays ChangBei actually played the Water Deity in Ashes of Love or JingMi's father? ^_^

 

 

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Does anyone know other website beside viki?, I'm still at ep 25 since the eng subs this time is quite slow, thanks

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5 hours ago, tomo74 said:

@linhlinh111I have the same view as you, thought I'm the only one, thank you :star:

To be honest, I thought it was cute for QH to act the hero and help ML, even though I knew that it would probably be an issue later. I’ll admit that I expected for someone of QH’s position and smarts to know a bit more about societal dynamics, but given how sheltered he is, I can see why he doesn’t.

 

5 hours ago, linhlinh111 said:

The character QH in the drama was designed very well, from his optimism, to his naivety, to his passion, to his stubbornness. Resulted from his upbringing, his status and his personality, all of his actions till now were reasonable and consistent within the context of the story. After all he's just the second male lead so of course he gotta step back when the lead come on stage.

I agree, his character was designed well, which gives us a good story line of first love and that not everything is always rainbows and sunshines. It’s like one of QH’s lines in the trailers, “We think that if we ask for the wind, we will get the wind.”  To me it shows one of those life lessons that even though we see someone who seems to have it all, it’s not always that way.  Everything in life is about choices, possibilities, and opportunities. Each choice made affects something else.  Everyone grows up with different circumstances that shape our values which shape our choices and sometimes, like QH’s situation, those choices are already made for us and it’s a matter of how we accept it. 

   As for the offer of kidnapping the princess, I’m going to reserve my judgment on whether that was a genuine plan, or if GTY was testing to see how far QH would be willing to go because for someone who’s been out there and seen the political climate and chaos first hand with strategic smarts, I sought he would actually do something crazy like that against a powerful family. There’s another scene in the trailers where GTY says something like, “You expect her to wage her life on a plan like that?” It didn’t show who he was talking to so I don’t know if there’s more to come on GTY helping out or if it’s something else. I don’t think QH is beyond scheming, as long as he doesn’t feel that it will bring harm to others, since he has done a little bit of scheming like getting 6th Liang son to set up the polo match or tricks to get ML alone. His scheming is just more innocent and not as bold and crazy as GTY, once again it’s because of their personalities shaped by their circumstances. 

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7 hours ago, m0us3y said:

Hahahahahaha. :lol:

My bad. My apologies. :rolleyes::lol:

It was nice for a while...every girl's dream to marry the prince....until marrying the prince just got boring...

Was sick of shows with the rich perfect guy always saving the day and the damsel in distress. Why can't the woman save herself?

And that's why I adore ML. :sweatingbullets::wub:

 

When QH said he'll protect her, I just wanted to say "that's nice, but I think she is capable of protecting herself!!":D

 

For some reason i always like these type's of shows maybe because i like cocky rich guys ? xd

6 hours ago, m0us3y said:

I know right! :lol:

ML must be some sort of bandit magnet or something?! :wacko:

4 bandit attacks in 3 episodes!! (Including her 1v1 with the fatty, which was more hilarious, and  the attack that she never had) Show is surely out to create opportunities for GTY to save her! 

 

I do prefer that he protects her in secret tho, and not declaring to her and expect returns. 

Especially funny that he shot the lantern and it seemed like she did it, frightening the bandit to run. :lol:

 

I think at some point ML will save him back. She can protect him, and the others around her too!! 

 

From trailers ive seen i think she will save him fear not. 

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4 hours ago, linhlinh111 said:

To previous post who said QH shouldn't help ML in the polo match, QH was in love with ML, ML was in a tough situation. So should he be like: "No worries, somebody else is gonna help her, I should just stay out of it"? That is not something a man in love would think. QH's action is logical and true to his character, maybe not very smart in viewer's opinion, but that's what he was supposed to do.

 

I see many have said that QH should have understood ML's situation instead of being selfish and causing her trouble. Imagine a 15 yr old boy growing up in a pink world, one day he fell in love and suddenly everyone said "No you 2 can't be together" and expected him to just give up? He loved her so he had to go for her. What's wrong with that? After he knew that his action would bring her trouble he tried to be more discreet, but there were moments he couldn't control himself and that was totally normal. He was young, naive, passionate and sometimes a bit less thoughtful, but that was who he is.

 

Viewers sometimes expect him to do things or to not do things that are completely out of his character. QH is not GTY, their backgrounds, situations and personalities are totally different. He is gentle, kind and his way of thinking is straightfoward. He wanted to marry ML so he did it the official way, asking his parents to propose for him. It might not a very smart move but that was how far his mind could go. If he wanted to get married he had to have his parents' approval so he couldn't think of any other way. He wouldn't con or trick his way through bc that was wrong to him.

 

QH refused GTY's help bc the solution he proposed was devious and QH, who lived by his moral code, could not approve. He didn't mess up everything, the situation was already messed up itself. He was cornered and had no other choice but to give ML up. At least he knew when to give up and he only gave up after trying everything he could. If he had 7-8 more yrs of life experience, when he was at GTY's age now he would be perfect for ML, but unfortunately for him ML wouldn't hang around and wait for him forever, so in the end QH and ML just weren't meant for each other.

 

The character QH in the drama was designed very well, from his optimism, to his naivety, to his passion, to his stubbornness. Resulted from his upbringing, his status and his personality, all of his actions till now were reasonable and consistent within the context of the story. After all he's just the second male lead so of course he gotta step back when the lead come on stage.

 

A man who actually thinks back then would exactly do that , you helping her basically has a big chance to ruin her reputation and people will gossip etc.. if someone is already about to help her why do you need to get involved. I dont think his actions are logical at all and i really like QH but the polo thing was just him trying to show off .

 

When ML keeps telling him stuff and it does not register im just starting to think QH has some illness, him being young is not a excuse for him being so damn naive and stupid, those moments where he couldnt control himself could ruin ML's life forever. 

 

He didnt ask the correct way at all on his mum's birthday where she was emotional from her son's love he asks can he marry some girl.. could anyone be more stupid.

 

Well QH enjoy that moral code for the rest of your life where you are miserable,depressed and alone. 

 

I like QH but hes infuriating and stupid but i still pity the character and hope good thing's for him .

 

3 hours ago, tomo74 said:

Does anyone know other website beside viki?, I'm still at ep 25 since the eng subs this time is quite slow, thanks

 

Nah its just viki. 

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30 minutes ago, ForgottenSoulx said:

He didnt ask the correct way at all on his mum's birthday where she was emotional from her song's love he asks can he marry some girl.. could anyone be more stupid.

If irc, he didn't straight ask his mom after the lantern and the dinner thing. The convo between him and his father leads to that, and he didn't say who is the girl, mom already knows it, my apologize if I remembered incorrectly. He indeed has the intention to bring this matter up to his parent.

I agree about the comment, we can't compared apple and orange, like GTY and QH, they are very different, GTY is street smart, more cunning, quick thinking, but QH is book smart, sheltered, naive, so like others said, they do/react differently base on each personality.

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5 hours ago, thatpers0n said:

First off, I am sorry for not quoting the post I am replying to -I forgot. XD

For the person who said about what SL ending might be, for me it's better he died honourably as a SL. It is much better than him having to watch someone he love in someone else arms tbh. 

As for the how this could be like those cliche k-drama I know right. Though I say I would would rather watch that than watching a not pure guy winning a pure girl. 

Do correct me if I've misunderstood,...did u mean QH should die honorably just because he couldn't get ML?:huh:

If that's not what you meant, my apologies in advance for misunderstanding. 

 

If that's what you meant...

Then I think ML should have died first - born into unloved lowly concubine, mother and brother murdered, and she has to continue to live with the murderers!

And GTY should die following - mom died from heartbreak, misunderstood by the world to cause the dad's death, the one he loved (MN) deceived him all these while, the stepmom he trusted turned out to be a demon. 

I'm not sure losing his first love (and servant) is much harder. 

 

So he doesn't get his first love. Forced to give it up and marry another. 

Life lesson 101: you don't get everything you want in life. I like how @hello210 puts it, it's opportunity, and choices. And if I may add, trade offs. You make a choice, you get something, you lose something else. Almost the law of equilibrium. 

He made a choice, (yes, under threat), to save the dad and potentially Sheng Family and ML to marry the princess, he loses ML. It may not seem like much of a choice, but it is. And he made it.

GTY offered the other choice: Maybe stupid, probably very risky, definitely daring. The stakes are high, and if he loses, he could lose a lot! But fact is, he didn't choose the risky route (if he did, he would probably be the male lead).

The choice he made is probably consistent with the character of QH, if I may add. 

If he made that choice, live with the consequences! 

 

He has his moral code, and that's partially to do with the fact that he had the luxury to have that. 

It's tumultuous times, and it's a dog eat dog world out there. His ideals would be crushed sooner or later. That world he lives in was a bubble the parents created for him. It's bound to burst. 

 

When things go south, he should learn to fight. 

Learn the way of life, it doesn't mean he has to manipulate everyone, but it does mean he's at least able to protect himself. 

Everyone is fighting hard to survive, and thrive. ML and GTY had always been on battlefields, fighting for themselves. 

About time for QH to do the same too. 

Death, after just losing your right to be with your loved one? That's just cowardice. 

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1 hour ago, tomo74 said:

If irc, he didn't straight ask his mom after the lantern and the dinner thing. The convo between him and his father leads to that, and he didn't say who is the girl, mom already knows it, my apologize if I remembered incorrectly. He indeed has the intention to bring this matter up to his parent.

I agree about the comment, we can't compared apple and orange, like GTY and QH, they are very different, GTY is street smart, more cunning, quick thinking, but QH is book smart, sheltered, naive, so like others said, they do/react differently base on each personality.

 

You can bring it up but doing at that point is pure stupidity it would just anger the mum that the son did all this to win the girl and not really for me/.

57 minutes ago, m0us3y said:

 

 

 

I think that person means they want QH to die honourably then suffer all his life? 


After knowing what happens to QH in the book if he died earlier it would have been better then what happens to him. 

 

Also it was not really a choice the sheng family,ML and his father were being threatened he had no choice there. 

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@linhlinh111 Well said! You worded better than me.

In life, People usually do not fully grasp the depth of the issue unless they personally experience it as in the case with QH. That’s what I have been saying in my posts earlier that it is unjust to call QH weak, selfish, wet-blanket for not having better plans to propose marriage to ML. Everything he did was in character and there is no better ways he could have done at this point in his life. He was ready to marry ML as his first wife, he himself not caring ML status. He did not understand his mom and his family situation of needing him to marry well to keep their current status, causing him to overestimate his ability in convincing his mom. As he has not expected that he would fail to marry ML, he would not think that helping her in Polo will create bad reputation for her. You can see his thinking in the way he addressed ML’s concerns during their alone meeting at the temple. That doesn’t mean that he was not being considerate of ML, not listening to what ML was telling him about her predicaments or not respecting her. He just thought that he already has solution and she shouldn’t be worrying. He was just being too optimistic and naive as he has not experienced life challenging situations like ML and GTY. 

 

However, for this story, I do not to see QH as SL, written to give way to GTY. QH and GTY were not rivaling for ML at this point and his character has not been forced in anyway to lose the opportunity to get married to ML like in the case of Dr. He. It is that QH wanting to marry ML at this point in his life was not right time as well as his personality, upbringing, background and status were not suitable for ML to be his first wife at this point. If he met ML after his princess wife died, he might be more cautious in meeting her or helping her and he might not even consider marrying her as main wife since he should have already realized that his ducal family needs his status. 

 

 

Spoiler

In epi 27, he thought about asking emperor decree for marriage during spring visit to palace but it will be easier said than done in reality even if he is not in current predicament with YW family. He told ML that he believes emperor will give the decree seeing that he is being sincere, another display of his naivety and optimism. 

 

On the other hand, I don’t consider GTY being less pure or having bad rep or thinks that he doesn’t deserve ML. I have no issue even if the drama portray him like in the book having dead legal wife and concubines before ML. Being raised unloved in that kind of family environment with rebellious streak and access to money, GTY having two kids with outside women at the age of 23-24 in Song Dynasty is not surprising to me. In that era, guys already sleeping with their tongfan maids as early as 12-13. (Kang Xi emperor had his first child when he was 13). Parents already start looking for suitable marriage prospect for their daughters as early as 12-13 and girls usually get married right after their coming of age ceremony at 15. We should also remember that there is no much entertainment like internet, TV, movies, games in that period. We should only judge characters being in their shoes, understanding their background, situation and the time period they’re in.

 

However, I felt the drama is trying to make GTY look too good by showing him attending school regularly, making him take imperial exam and saying he only failed because of his cunning older brother’s bath-mouthing him. It seems a little forced to imagine someone who pleasures in alcohol and entertainment with two young kids studying hard. I understand the drama needs to create more interactions between main leads and cannot portray male lead too realistically like in the book to get viewers. 

 

Spoiler

 

Brother CB who has upright character, also has 1-2 tong-fan maids before he got married, it is just not shown. The only reason those guys with tong-fan maids at home do not have kids before they got main wife is that their moms made sure those maid do not get pregnant. For GTY’s case, he did not have kids with his 7 tongfan maids as they were made sure not to get pregnant but got kids with MN because she was kept outside with no one to control her fertility. 

 

That’s why I commented before that viewers should not compare QH’s current actions towards ML to those of GTY at current time point or in the future. QH is a 18 years old lad madly in love with ML and GTY is 23-24 years old acquitance of ML with weathered experiences who is not love-struck. QH was only son raised in ducal scholarly house by both parents who loved, pampered and protected him while GTY was raised in military house with trashy relatives and two other brothers by his strict father with inability to express his love and dubious stepmother. GTY grew up without being loved, emotionally and physically abused, left to defend for himself, lived wandering life in Jianghu as well as in entertainment circles. QH is both financially and emotionally dependent on his parents while GTY is not. So, their ways of thinking and actions toward ML at current time point will be totally different. Afterall, they're two totally different characters. 

 

 

 

 

 

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This drama points out everything tht is wrong/not normal/flaws in each family -  their children somehow became victims of circumstances.

 

Now, how do I summarise and elaborate on the above? 

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14 minutes ago, Golden Flower said:

However, I felt the drama is trying to make GTY look too good by showing him attending school regularly, making him take imperial exam and saying he only failed because of his cunning older brother’s bath-mouthing him. It seems a little forced to imagine someone who pleasures in alcohol and entertainment with two young kids studying hard.

I couldn't agree more :thumbsup:  but after all GTY is the first lead, the script won't failed him, ML has to end up with heroic type of person.

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1 hour ago, Golden Flower said:

 

However, I felt the drama is trying to make GTY look too good by showing him attending school regularly, making him take imperial exam and saying he only failed because of his cunning older brother’s bath-mouthing him. It seems a little forced to imagine someone who pleasures in alcohol and entertainment with two young kids studying hard. I understand the drama needs to create more interactions between main leads and cannot portray male lead too realistically like in the book to get viewers. 

Lol...I actually know some people like that that’s crazy smart who studies during the day and parties all the time, thus having kids. It’s not common, but relatable to me.  But I will have to agree that they had to showcase some good attributes in GTY to counterbalance the having mistress, kids, and possible first marriage (in novel) because there were comments from some viewers in Viki that they were no longer interested once they saw this and realized that ML was not his first and only.  

 

44 minutes ago, tomo74 said:

I couldn't agree more :thumbsup:  but after all GTY is the first lead, the script won't failed him, ML has to end up with heroic type of person.

As far as ML having to end up with GTY, after all the fantasy and historical C-dramas and K-dramas, I’ve seen so far where one or the other ends up dying, floating at the bottom of a lake, or a frozen popsicle despite what’s in the novels, I wouldn’t have even cared if a twist was made and she ended up with QH after all, I’m just glad it’s a happy ending :lol:  Even though it’s fitting for ML and GTY’s characters to be together and I like GTY.

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Wow, love all your current posts. @m0us3y@linhlinh111@hello210 @GoldenFlower(Among others) have written eloquently and analyzed perfectly (much better than I could have done).First of all thanks :wub: It makes watching this drama even more enjoyable. Secondly, it shows this drama is even more interesting to interpret and watch. It makes you want think, and ponder, to which I treasure those dramas more. Sure there are some valid criticisms of the drama. However, I don’t ever trust 100% what they show to be actual in that specific time period. Cause honestly most likely they wouldn’t be able to show so many episodes.ie. Making ML the steward for example or putting them in classes with men not their brothers. Not likely, but I tend to shrug my shoulders and wave it off. Cause if they showed the women embroider everyday would be totally dull drama to/for me..:phew:

 

Just one observation  in regards to QH and GTY, I like both characters truth be told, However, when it comes to marriage it’s a different ball game. Both of them have faults and good qualities. But ultimately who would be the better partner for ML in the long run is what decides her “love” per say ( I’m putting quotations in the love part for a reason). Family ties is what matters in the long run.

 

Personally, there is NO way I would marry or think of marrying QH. Having a mother in law like that would want me to return to my family ASAP. 

GTY for all his play boy tendicies and having children out of wedlock shows a sense of responsibility, to me, a better marriage candidate. Plus not having a mother or having a crappy family gives the wife a different sort of freedom (postives and negatives of course) ie. Not tied 100% to the in-laws would be a big relief to me. But again I’m not ML B)

 

 

 

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