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Confused. Need some input from the Korean ladies out there


Guest btbh

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Been friends with this Korean girl for 4 years now back when I was still attached. I have been single now for slightly over a year and we have been going out for awhile now. Have been chasing her (asking her out, dinners, drinks, partying, gifts when I travel and even occasional random flowers or bday flowers). Shes 24 i'm 26. When we go out its always a good time, 3 - 6 hours each time. We meet average once or twice a week for the last three months and always have a good time together. She calls me 'Oppa' most of the time (though I don't read too much into that). The times we are out she always links her arm through mine when we walk around and is very touchy. I keep the touching subtle and nothing too over the top but definitely not how a normal guy friend would touch her.
Just last week I asked her where this was all going, cause I also don't want to be in the whole grey area situation. Told her I liked her more than a friend and whether was there a chance of this becoming something more. She told me didn't know I liked her in that way (which i still don't believe, every girl I've told has said if a guy was doing all this, they will know hes interested in them). She said she thought I was just being a really good friend taking care of her as she is alone in this country (Her sister moved to UK to do college and mom moved back to Korea recently).
So I told her if there wasn't a chance, Ill stop putting so much effort and just move on and treat her as a normal friend. Cause I don't want to be taken advantage of and be strung along like some chum. She says she likes me but needs time to think about it. Cause she knows my ex, and knows we still keep in contact, even though its totally platonic.
Couple days later I ask her if we are still doing X'mas eve dinner (we made plans couple of weeks back), she replies it isn't a good idea cause she will feel weird and to meet after I come back from a short family holiday next week. 
Basically what I've concluded is that I'm totally friend-zoned and she just sees me as a friend. But what I wanna know is, why was she so touchy (link arms etc). Is it normal for Korean girls to do that with really good guy friends? I'm Asian as well and non of my other good gfs do that with me. What is confusing, a lot of the signs are there but when push comes to shove, it ends up going no where. Would like input from a Korean girls perspective so I can get some insight if this is normal.
Cheers!

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"Where is this going" isn't a conversation a man should ever bring up. You let her do that. But she'll only ever bring it up when you're involved sexually. (Minimum kissing)
The reason why you're friendzoned is because you were too complacent, you never escalated physical attraction with her. "subtle touching, nothing over the top" screams Friend Zone to me. 
You've known this girl for close to 4 years with no levels of physical attraction being exchanged. And you've been going out more as cohorts rather than romantic partners. In her mind, that's all you are. So when you tried to disrupt that reality by confessing to something that isn't consistent with her reality, a natural automatic response is to run away. Humans are creatures of consistency, you can not try to change something that has been ingrained for a prolonged period of time. Hugs, linking arms, this is what friends and famliy members do. It is completely platonic. The only time you can say it's no longer platonic, is when a kiss is exchanged. 
My advice? Anything you do right now will not be to your benefit, and will push her away. Continuing to be friends with her, while having feelings for her is not something I would put myself through, and you shouldn't either. Don't delude yourself into thinking you are okay with being friends with her, while hearing about some jerk whose mistreating her. It will kill you. What you should do in the mean time, is limit contact with her to levels that of an acquaintances. Formal greetings only. You have to pull out and reset. You continue to develop yourself into someone that she would find attractive. Not just her, but girls in general. You get to know other girls, you date around. And maybe, just maybe she'll learn through the grapevine what a great guy you've become/are and what she may missed out on. That's when she'll come looking for you. But by that time, you might not even want her. Life's funny that way, isn't it?

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very interesting, thanks for post. I don't know... I think you did the right thing. whether you attacked or kept things subtle, she still liked you so I don't think that changed anything. definitely a really confusing situation and I wouldn't know either. Although I would have came to the same conclusions as you did, being friendzoned because she doesn't want to see you for Christmas dinner.. but it also might be that she's afraid you're not going to be as nice and that things will be awkward since you already said that you would treat her as a .."normal friend", and she's probably afraid of that, afraid it'll be too big of a change from your guys' current state. or she's afraid to reveal the real reason why she won't be your gf, if she has one.. either way, she def is afraid of something she doesn't want happening that she has def thought about before and had been in the back of her head every so often.

I don't know why @MiDnite89 thinks a man should never bring up this subject (could you explain btw? I'm curious).. it's like saying that girls shouldn't ask boys out, and associated gender roles. I think if he wants to know he should just ask, 24-26 is not an immature age anymore. Whenever I have some unclear and variable situation, my friends always just tell me to ask the girl to get down to the truth.

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Yeah she's not interested, sorry. I do link my arms with my guy friends or lean on them some times when we've both had a bit of alcohol, and even if I haven't I will playfully slap them and initiate contact. Conversely if I like the guy as more than a friend that's when I would be very nervous and self conscious about touching them haha, especially if I don't know them well yet.

Not all girls are the same though. For this particular girl I think the most important thing is she's said she's "not sure" which pretty much means "no", except she's trying to be polite. The fact that she wants to put off meeting you after you've confessed is basically her telling you she's not comfortable with being with you now that you've made it clear you want to be more than friends.

Agree you did the right thing though. Good to make things clear so you don't waste time. But yeah back off and stop contacting her, if you keep doing that it's going to make her feel stressed and want to avoid you even more. Even after you come back from your holidays don't bother contacting her unless she initiates it.

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@Ninshark
Because it doesn't do anything. It doesn't build attraction. Dating is about reciprocation from both parties. The man takes the first step to asking the girl out. The entire dating process is for you to build attraction to the point where she comes to that conclusion on her own, that she wants to be exclusive with you. She has to reciprocate your advances. Men should be men, and let the women be women. If you start mixing roles, that's when you get friendzoned. He can ask the girl, but he's not going to get the answer he's desiring, so what's the point? 
Attraction is not random. It is very meticulous. It builds and grows. And then you reap it. Jumping to the end, to ask her "what are we?" is like trying to reap something you haven't sowed yet. If you want to keep failing time and time again, then go as you do. But if you want better results in the future, it's time to try something else.

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MiDnite89 said: "Where is this going" isn't a conversation a man should ever bring up. You let her do that. But she'll only ever bring it up when you're involved sexually. (Minimum kissing)
The reason why you're friendzoned is because you were too complacent, you never escalated physical attraction with her. "subtle touching, nothing over the top" screams Friend Zone to me. 
You've known this girl for close to 4 years with no levels of physical attraction being exchanged. And you've been going out more as cohorts rather than romantic partners. In her mind, that's all you are. So when you tried to disrupt that reality by confessing to something that isn't consistent with her reality, a natural automatic response is to run away. Humans are creatures of consistency, you can not try to change something that has been ingrained for a prolonged period of time. Hugs, linking arms, this is what friends and famliy members do. It is completely platonic. The only time you can say it's no longer platonic, is when a kiss is exchanged. 
My advice? Anything you do right now will not be to your benefit, and will push her away. Continuing to be friends with her, while having feelings for her is not something I would put myself through, and you shouldn't either. Don't delude yourself into thinking you are okay with being friends with her, while hearing about some jerk whose mistreating her. It will kill you. What you should do in the mean time, is limit contact with her to levels that of an acquaintances. Formal greetings only. You have to pull out and reset. You continue to develop yourself into someone that she would find attractive. Not just her, but girls in general. You get to know other girls, you date around. And maybe, just maybe she'll learn through the grapevine what a great guy you've become/are and what she may missed out on. That's when she'll come looking for you. But by that time, you might not even want her. Life's funny that way, isn't it?

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Ninshark said: very interesting, thanks for post. I don't know... I think you did the right thing. whether you attacked or kept things subtle, she still liked you so I don't think that changed anything. definitely a really confusing situation and I wouldn't know either. Although I would have came to the same conclusions as you did, being friendzoned because she doesn't want to see you for Christmas dinner.. but it also might be that she's afraid you're not going to be as nice and that things will be awkward since you already said that you would treat her as a .."normal friend", and she's probably afraid of that, afraid it'll be too big of a change from your guys' current state. or she's afraid to reveal the real reason why she won't be your gf, if she has one.. either way, she def is afraid of something she doesn't want happening that she has def thought about before and had been in the back of her head every so often.

I don't know why @MiDnite89 thinks a man should never bring up this subject (could you explain btw? I'm curious).. it's like saying that girls shouldn't ask boys out, and associated gender roles. I think if he wants to know he should just ask, 24-26 is not an immature age anymore. Whenever I have some unclear and variable situation, my friends always just tell me to ask the girl to get down to the truth.

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tamaraleee said: Yeah she's not interested, sorry. I do link my arms with my guy friends or lean on them some times when we've both had a bit of alcohol, and even if I haven't I will playfully slap them and initiate contact. Conversely if I like the guy as more than a friend that's when I would be very nervous and self conscious about touching them haha, especially if I don't know them well yet.

Not all girls are the same though. For this particular girl I think the most important thing is she's said she's "not sure" which pretty much means "no", except she's trying to be polite. The fact that she wants to put off meeting you after you've confessed is basically her telling you she's not comfortable with being with you now that you've made it clear you want to be more than friends.

Agree you did the right thing though. Good to make things clear so you don't waste time. But yeah back off and stop contacting her, if you keep doing that it's going to make her feel stressed and want to avoid you even more. Even after you come back from your holidays don't bother contacting her unless she initiates it.

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Hmm @btbh I'm not Korean but my best friend is. She is pretty touchy haha. Like when we walk, she will sometimes want to hold hands. She said girls in Korea do do it so maybe that could be it? But I thought it was something between girls! I don't think it extends to guys. Actually re-reading your original post, I do think she led you on a bit. I don't think I would hang out with my guy friend just one on one for 4-6 hours at a time as a regular thing unless we were really close... maybe once in a while if things just turned out that way, but not planned. I don't think my best friend would either.

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tamaraleee said: Hmm @btbh I'm not Korean but my best friend is. She is pretty touchy haha. Like when we walk, she will sometimes want to hold hands. She said girls in Korea do do it so maybe that could be it? But I thought it was something between girls! I don't think it extends to guys. Actually re-reading your original post, I do think she led you on a bit. I don't think I would hang out with my guy friend just one on one for 4-6 hours at a time as a regular thing unless we were really close... maybe once in a while if things just turned out that way, but not planned. I don't think my best friend would either.

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It looks like you've made your choice to stop being her friend. that's fine. I feel like she has dropped below your regular friends haha.

If you actually wanted to be her friend, you should prove it to her in person, hang out with her and just be normal without all the NG guestures, but enough to be a reasonable gentleman. and you can analyze her responses at the same time, that'd surely be interesting. If she starts to feel something missing, she might realize she actually likes you. If she's ok with the change, then she def doesn't like you.

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