[Drama 2012] Faith 신의

[Guest guadi]

Overall, episode 18 is a bit somber  
In terms of character progress, I really like Gongmin in this episode. A brief moment outside of the palace added a bit more steel to his traits. He's no longer that feeble-minded king who always self-doubted himself. 
I especially love the moment when Do Chi and one of the maids dis-robed Gongmin and Noguk. A simple act of having two ordinary citizens removing the king and queen's clothes somehow felt very powerful. Gongmin's end goal has always been to acquire his citizens' loyalty, so he can lead them confidently. To see his citizens sacrificing their lives in the name of protecting the King; that I thought was a sign to inform viewers that GM is no longer that timid king who has no one following his lead anymore. 
Also, I love how royal artifacts are interpreted in the past two episodes. We've already known the story of the seal and how much problem it created. In this episode, a minor thing really stood out for me - the royal attires. Similar to the seal, by having someone wearing them, some people don't even notice the difference. I think it means to tell us something about that turbulent period with irregular changes in leadership. The citizens have lost trust in their king. The objects of authority like the seal and royal clothing, become more important than the "owner" of those objects. These artifacts are stuff of permanency, while the owner can be disposed on a whim. In a way, episode 18 is a catalyst that alters the traditional way of thinking. Here we see, Gongmin, bereft of the objects that make him the figure of authority - the old Yuan seal and the royal attires - but what he gains in return is loyalty and trust from many more ordinary citizens. They are willing to fight for him, to stand by his side. Those superficial dressings have no meaning anymore. So even when Gongmin is dressed in peasant class attires, he still has loyal followers. I feel for the first time, he has acquired the "Mandate of Heaven" to govern this land of his. And we know how Episode 19 plays out with his people waiting in line to join the army  
Of course, there's at least one citizen who is experiencing an existential crisis - 

In time of crisis, but still look drop dead handsome :\">

Oh, Choi Young! Sigh...so much responsibility rested on this person's shoulders. 
But in this episode, my heart breaks a little for Gongmin when Young tells him, that Eun-soo has always been first. While I understand that comment because Eun-soo's lively presence is so contagious to those around her. Young is a primary beneficiary of having said figure to comfort him and to make him alive again. And in his heart, he loves her....BUT I still feel that his answer is a bit selfish because he doesn't take into account how Gongmin's presence has changed his life. 
Seven years ago, the family he came to love was taken away. His master died at the hands of the king; his fiancee committed suicide; and the rest got dispersed. That day Young lost not only his loved ones, he also lost the intangible belief in his nation, and more importantly in the throne. Knowing and serving Gongmin has allowed Choi Young to gradually reinstate that trust in the institution again. He now has a purpose to live and lead. Though he may not have realized it, Gongmin has been a good presence in Young's life. And to say that that Eun-soo has always been first and wanting to go away with her, I felt a bit mad at him. 
Eun-soo may have been the catalyst that thrusts Choi Young back to life. But a portrait of a life well-lived are filled with sometimes small and sometimes larger than life interactions with strangers, with close acquaintances, with foes and friends. So Gongmin, the Wooldachis, the queens, and the soldiers, the people, his enemies, those are the forces that fill the existential voids and capture his life narrative. 
I know at this point, Choi Young is already struggling with the heaviness of the sword (or in literal term, where his "heart" lies). I'm hoping the novel will tell us a lot more on that part of his struggle. @yuuni - I like how we get to see the dichotomy of the sword. From the outset, the sword  seems ghostly or light, as a representation of Choi Young the care free figure, the live to die character, the frontal attack exterior who has no attachment to this world. Then Eun-soo comes along, and everything within him changes. His live to die attitude changes to living with a future. But the process of transforming from the old to the new Choi Young is challenging. His heart can't change overnight, there is a heaviness in the way it must meditate and ponder over every life altering decision. The biggest question for him is -- in order to have a life worth living, does that mean giving his loyalty to the king or following Eun-soo where ever she goes? And we know the physical manifestation of his heavy heart is in the form of that immeasurably heavy sword. Her presence changes everything. 
I'm hoping the novel delves a lot more into Gongmin's and Ki Chul's story arcs. They were so interesting at the beginning, and then the romance really took central stage at the end; and other developments were a bit under-served. 

[Guest Hanjae]

@guadi, loved your post on Eun Soo's thoughts in the Love Actually scene! I was pondering about this from Choi Young's point of view during the recap yesterday but didn't end up posting it, so perhaps I'll add it now. Even though Young didn't understand the true message behind Eun Soo's words, I think his question about the date of the portal was in fact - quite intentional.

Choi Young was noticeably contemplative upon her remark that "a certain someone" will protect her should she be in danger, when he questioned her about her safety remaining where she is alone. Eun Soo wouldn't know, but it only served to heighten his inner struggle between being Eun Soo's protector or a dutiful general, which had begun to tear away at him following the death of the Wudalchi and his admission to Gongmin that he would always choose Eun Soo first. For him at this point, it was either one or the other; he could not follow his heart (Eun Soo) without placing the Wudalchi and the king in danger, but following the king's orders would place Eun Soo in danger.

Choi Young stating that he'll bring her to the portal, then, shows once again that he has chosen Eun Soo above all else - to bring her to the portal at this point, after his talk with Gongmin where he had once again expressed the wish to leave, could only mean that he thinks to relieve the burden between heart and duty by turning his back on the palace. Significantly, the "palace" really symbolizes more than just "duty" to Young, because honor and duty are not simply virtues where Young is concerned - they describe who he actually is as a man. To Young, who prizes the fulfillment of promises above his own life, he is in effect turning his back on who he is, which is why I'm glad that Eun Soo saw past this later and sought to rectify the situation.

The insistence on bringing her back to the portal so soon is also an interesting contrast to his earlier plea for her to stay by his side in her remaining time rather than with Deok Heung. It captures, perhaps, his renewed belief of his incapability as a protector to anyone - whether the Wudalchi, the king or Eun Soo. Young is someone who has only ever seen his own worth as a warrior and protector, so in his eyes his seeming loss of reliability has rendered him worthless. Rather than risking her life when he can no longer protect her properly, he believes it would be best for her to return to safety in her own time, as soon as possible.

As for Young's "selfish" choice of Eun Soo over Gongmin - that may be so, but it was significant that this is the first time he had realized that he's found something more important to him than fulfilling his duty. As much as one's nation or political leader might deserve one's loyalty, how many men would choose that over the people they love? As much as Gongmin had given Young direction "career"-wise, would that mean more to him than the woman who had not only brought him back to life, but given him renewed motivation to continue living it? These are simply the choices that make us human. Young had always lived by casting aside his own personal desires, neglecting his emotional well-being in order to do what is "right" and honourable. This is the first time he'd done the opposite, and I can't hold it against him.

[Guest farstrep]

Is anyone here right now? Or everyone is knocked out after the long recap for Episode 18?



EDIT: @sia3: Hello! :-h Happy brunching!!

[mademoisellesia]

Hi @farstrep, @myphim & @Yuuni (if you girls are lurking BTS)
I've woken up 2 hours ago and just updating all the insightful comments made onto the y-k-w from weeks ago till today!

I'm officially beat from last night's recaps. LOL.
Well, am going off to brunch. See ya all later! :-*

[Guest myphim]

sia3 said: Hi @farstrep, @myphim & @Yuuni (if you girls are lurking BTS)
I've woken up 2 hours ago and just updating all the insightful comments made onto the y-k-w from weeks ago till today!

I'm officially beat from last night's recaps. LOL.
Well, am going off to brunch. See ya all later! :-*

[Maja]

Good morning! @everybody )
Yuuni said: @Maja or @azzurri
Which scene does it come from ?

[Guest farstrep]

Hello, @myphim!! I'm doing chores too.

Hello, @Maja!! Thanks for the LMH good night gif you've dedicated to me a few days back. It's so cute! Whose hand is that anyway?
Maja said: Good night!

@farstrep

[mademoisellesia]

[mademoisellesia]

by Hime Park

:'( :'(

Thank you @himepark, now I know why you wanted this to be translated! I hope you can find an English translator (I don't think I am good enough to convey the message, sorry) so that all Faithlings in here will understand why upon seeing this, I cried my eyes out!!!! :'( :'(

[Pearlytears]

Wahhh @maja

How is that possible? I watched BOF 2 times in a row and am tempted to watch it a third time! Lol.

[Guest farstrep]

@Hanjae and @guadi: Thanks for the insightful post yet again. I know the information we have of Eum Ja is very limited since he doesn't do or appear much in the drama but I would like to know your opinion of him. That is, if you have the time to spare. All are welcome to answer as well.

Thanks, @sia3 for sharing the wonderful videos. Thank @Himepark on our behalf for the wonderful videos she's made.

Hello, @Hanjae, @bee_ipa, @mattie2012 and @WutHmone and all lurkers! :-h

[Guest myphim]

sia3 said:

by Hime Park

:'( :'(

[mattie2012]

sia3 said:

by Hime Park

:'( :'(

Thank you @himepark, now I know why you wanted this to be translated! I hope you can find an English translator (I don't think I am good enough to convey the message, sorry) so that all Faithlings in here will understand why upon seeing this, I cried my eyes out!!!! :'( :'(

[mademoisellesia]

@myphim @farstrep
It's even sadder if we know what the subtitles mean! :'( :'(
But I cried already upon seeing Soompi Faithlings yet again!
)

[Guest myphim]

sia3 said: @myphim @farstrep
It's even sadder if we know what the subtitles mean! :'( :'(
But I cried already upon seeing Soompi Faithlings yet again!
)

[mademoisellesia]

@myphim
I can try. Okbon the translator used deep words so it'll take some time...
It's what YuRi wrote, how she feels when she watches Faith.
We would understand because it is what Faith made us feel... too. :'(
Ok, tap is broken again!!!

This time I'm really going out.
Ciao~

[Guest guadi]

@hanjae -- Interesting thoughts! Thanks for sharing  
I don't know if Choi Young mentioning the date was intentional or not. I do think Choi Young is not in a hurry to bring ES back to the portal in that scene. All he knows at that moment is that the portal will open on a certain date in which Eun-soo has the calculation, and they have limited time together. For that duration, he plans on tying loose ends, spends sometimes with her. Then he will bring her back. The promise to bring her back to the portal has not changed yet from when he asked her to stay by his side in Episode 17 to now in Episode 18. The difference is that, now there are the loss of the wooldachis and the guilt that he carries for "abandoning" them during their moment in need.
Eun-soo, on the other hand, knows that she is poisoned and also knows that if Choi Young knows of the poison, she will be sent immediately to the portal and waits there until the portal opens. So I interpret her message as her asking him to let her stay here at the herbal chamber until the date of the opening of the portal draws closer. She is asking him as if he has full information of her poison and is okay to let her stay.  That's what I mean by his answer giving her "false" comfort; it's cheering her a little bit. He is down because of the many deaths of his children, and she's worried because of his problem compounded by her being poisoned and what that means to both of them. They both need a personal cheerleader (I would totally volunteer to do that ) But then, intentionally or not, he mentions the date and you can see on Eun-soo's face the crush of the mere mention of her return to heaven.
This is the viki translation after he is about to leave -- 
Choi Young: What does the Prince of Court believe as the day the heaven door will open?Eun-soo: I said in about two months, but he doesn't believe me. I think he will take me there when he sees me. To wait in front of it.Choi Young: Then, we'll have to tie up that man's legs first. Please wait until I settle a few matters. Stay here until then and I will protect you. And before it is too late, I will escort you there. (a little pause) To there. Heaven's door. *sobs* (and the look on her face after he said these words. It kills me; as if she just got cut by those words. And Carry On is playing the background as Eun-soo is crying). She looks down at those papers, and tears dropped on a paper with the question of letting her stay written on it. 
Re: Choi Young being selfish. I think he is. Meeting and serving Gongmin is more than "career" advancement or direction. During that time period, a person's life and character is defined by his class. He is of the military class with a duty to protect the king. What he does is really honorable. But what he hasn't internalized is that having Gongmin has also changed his life. Obviously, the love of his life is Eun-soo, but we have to remember that Gongmin and Eun-soo appear in Young's life at almost the exact time. Gongmin the king makes Young understand what being a king is like, the responsibility and weight of carrying a nation. Choi Young sees in GM a king who is humble, whom he can serve honorably. And he's gone through all the troubles to bring the scholars, to scheme against Ki Chul, to do all the politicking that he hadn't normally done before. And on top of that, he is fighting a battle within himself as to whom he should protect. Choi Young is no longer living waiting for death to arrive. He doesn't confront problems head-on; he strategizes, he cares for other people. The struggle between love and country. And these struggles are what defined a life; they create a life narrative. So in a way (to me the viewer at least) Gongmin plays a major part in Choi Young's re-awakening. It's a pity that at this point in the show, Choi Young has not recognized Gongmin's contribution to a meaningful existence, but I do feel that subconsciously he's struggling with the heaviness of the sword. It's been like that since Episode 12 or maybe earlier, who knows. And we'll see how that unfolds in future episodes. 
Viki's translation - 
Choi Young: You once asked me how the order goesGongmin: Yes. I did ask you that. Choi Young: Always, that person was first. Such as allegiance to this nation, Goryeo...I don't really know it, Your Majesty (this part annoys me).Gongmin: So then?Choi Young: To keep a man who's having those thoughts as your majesty's general of Wooldachi is dangerous.Gongmin (look fierce btw ) : So then?Choi Young: Letting him go...is my request. Gongmin: Attend tomorrow's policy meeting. 
They both should give each other a hug ><
Edit: I'm going to sleep. Kinda suck living on the East Coast because everyone is chatting and I'm off to bed =((

[Guest farstrep]

When I look at @himepark's fan video, I feel like I'm watching an old movie which captures the most important snippets of Choi Young-Eun Soo's life. Reliving their memories, pain and happiness.

@awesomeduck and @kappy, hello! :-h

EDIT: @shengvang: Hello!! :-h I think you're fast becoming a full-fledged addict to the thread.

[Guest myphim]

guadi said:
Re: Choi Young being selfish. I think he is. Meeting and serving Gongmin is more than "career" advancement or direction. During that time period, a person's life and character is defined by his class. He is of the military class with a duty to protect the king. What he does is really honorable. But what he hasn't internalized is that having Gongmin has also changed his life. Obviously, the love of his life is Eun-soo, but we have to remember that Gongmin and Eun-soo appear in Young's life at almost the exact time. Gongmin the king makes Young understand what being a king is like, the responsibility and weight of carrying a nation. Choi Young sees in GM a king who is humble, whom he can serve honorably. And he's gone through all the troubles to bring the scholars, to scheme against Ki Chul, to do all the politicking that he hadn't normally done before. And on top of that, he is fighting a battle within himself as to whom he should protect. Choi Young is no longer living waiting for death to arrive. He doesn't confront problems head-on; he strategizes, he cares for other people. The struggle between love and country. And these struggles are what defined a life; they create a life narrative. So in a way (to me the viewer at least) Gongmin plays a major part in Choi Young's re-awakening. It's a pity that at this point in the show, Choi Young has not recognized Gongmin's contribution to a meaningful existence, but I do feel that subconsciously he's struggling with the heaviness of the sword. It's been like that since Episode 12 or maybe earlier, who knows. And we'll see that unfold in future episodes. 
Edit: I'm going to sleep. Kinda suck living on the East Coast because everyone is chatting and I'm off to bed =((

[awesomeduck]

Hello everyone :-h@farstrep - I was busy lurking and reading the interesting and very insightful posts from @guadi and @Hanjae - thank you for feeding us \m/I have some thoughts to add but it will take me some time to put it to proper words lol Now I'm just going to watch @himepark's video and cry in my corner